PREFONTAINE

Quality workout! Nice 4 on 2 off workout. I may have to give that a go. You held tough and even finished your last interval faster than your fifth. That shows some mental toughness.

Looking at my blog, I think you're right on with your comments about the VDOT tables. Your analysis is helpful to me and you can see that the higher the VDOT score, the law of diminishing returns comes into play.

Jake would probably have more insightful comments. I think the key for me will be to improve my weekly long runs to 10+ miles and have more structured speed sessions. Consistency has plagued me as well.

I am optimistic for both of us this year and hope to see us both up our speed (VDOT scores) and continue to enjoy the benefits of running.

Thanks again for your commentary, I heartily enjoy your analysis.

Interesting post. Is VO2M the same as VO2Max? If so, isn't that full out killing it? What do you have to do to get to that state of exhaustion and how do you stay there?

ACorn,

Hi.

Boy oh Boy...do not think I like the concept of diminishing returns. Lucky for me I do not have to concern myself with that yet. I am not an elite like you! I still have HUGE PRs within! (Or at least they will look huge)

Flatlander,

Hi.

VO2max intervals are supposed to be run at 3K to 5K race pace. I choose to run them at (VDOT: 42) 5K race pace (7:27/mile) The reasons for that - my VDOT is probably around 41.5 and 5K pace is simply easier for me to remember.

VO2M is the same as VO2max. But, No. I did not full out kill it. The reason: it takes two minutes to get to the point where I am working at 95-100 percent VO2max (98-100% MHR). I ran six 4-minute intervals for a total of 24 minutes of 5K pace running. However, only 12 minutes at VO2max.

Running 2 minute intervals would be of minimal benefit. Running seven 3 minute intervals would be 21 minutes at 5K race pace for only 7 minutes at VO2max.

I figure 4-5 minute intervals are the way to go. Daniels has 3-5 minutes being the best range and advises not going beyond 5 minutes.

I am not too sure about that though...am entertaining mile repeats at 5K pace. Not now though...tough to simply get through the 4 minute intervals. Have to think more about how logical doing 5K mile repeats may or may not be.

Oh by the way...I do identify the 24 minutes as VO2M for 3.19 miles in the summary...this simply reflects to me I ran them at 5K pace (not true VO2max).

Hope you and your family are doing well Flatlander.

Im anxiously waiting to hear about your new training regimen and theory.

Personally, I think lots of runners on the blog and off would benefit from less miles but harder and more quality miles when they do run.

Maybe that is just my excuse not to run more each week.

Anyway, looking forward to an update.

Late chime in... but I'll see if I can add to the discussion...

I've read Daniels books, but I don't get too caught up in the VDot stuff - simply b/c for me, its just too much structure.

But that being said, if you are going to follow a formula, Daniels is probably the best.

I think 4 x Mile @ 5K pace is a fantastic workout. Longer intervals - for me, that's usually in the 1000m to 1600m range, are really the bread and butter if you want to drop the 5K times. I think part of the reason I "underperform" in the 5K relative to my long distance races is because I don't do a lot of those workouts!

What I recommended to ACorn over the weekend was "my really simple running formula" - a tempo run, a track session, and a longer run each week. Vary the stimulus - the length and pace of the tempo, and the same thing w/ the track reps - sometimes run 200s/400s, sometimes go longer (like this workout that you did). It is important, though, to have an understanding of how the workouts fit together as building blocks - that's where having a solid understanding of Daniel's book can be super helpful.

Jake,

Hi.

Regarding Daniels and VDOT. I use the scores to identify where I am, where others are in relation to me and how we have progressed. But the most important element of the VDOT scores for me...the training intensities associated with them.

Those 4-5 minute 5K repeats you speak of are tough. Myself, I never specifically trained for the 5K distance until October of last year when I was going for PRs at that distance. The most important distance to me (right now) is the Half Marathon and Marathon distance.

Regarding your recommendation to ACorn over the weekend...that is the exact "really simple running formula" I arrived at for myself! Intervals Tues, Tempo Thursday and Long Saturday. I had to come up with something that would likely result in my getting out there as scheduled without compromising the miles too badly. The three Quality workouts weekly at 30 miles seems like a good fit. (But we'll see.)

Hey maybe I'll be meeting you in nine months or so...when you are in this neck of the woods.